WestHamFirm

hemelhammer · Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:23 pm Politics- Where do you stand?

Just wondering where the majorty of you people stand on the political side of things and why?

For me personally its very hard to make a desicion. I am a Nationalist in the way I am proud of my country and its traditions, yet a Socialist in the way I'm not too keen on Capitalism exploiting poorer countries for oil, manafacturing needs etc. However, as I dont in any way believe in white supremacy or sexism amongst the other things BNP promote, I generally like Labour or SWP.

For me Labour have gone down the pan, New labour is a joke and its only getting worse. Its more and more like the Conservatives every time they get elected and theres even talk that free NHS services will be abolished, which is totally ridiculous as the government made the NHS free as the soliders fighting in world war two wanted something back and free NHS for everyone! anyway, I sort of went off the track...

Who do you vote for? Im trying to get a debate going here so dont just slag off mine, or anyone elses views without backing them up with WHY you think there wrong.

(apologies if I got the Left-Right things wrong)

Peter Parka · Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:48 pm

For me at the moment, voting is like asking you which arm you want amputated. My vote depends on whats going on at the time in the party, not just sticking with one thing. I like looking at the bigger picture too, not just what is best for me. I would say down the middle but not Lib Dems as they seem to be pussies who can't make their mind up and suck up to one side or the other depending on what suits them. I've voted conservative at the last election but that is because the guy is a real gem amonst the tories while our labour MP is right up Blairs arse and is all for the war in Iraq.

oldhammer1966 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:08 pm

This topic is very interesting for me at the moment. I have voted differently in the 22 years that I have been allowed a vote. The trouble is with party politics is you pick a party and there are always things in their manifesto that you strongly disagree with so you have to pick the one that most closely fits the bill. I have never voted purely on what the parties do for me personally as I know what most of they 'promise' is spin. I vote with my conscience and what I feel is politically,socially and morally right for the country as a whole.

The trouble is that our whole political system is flawed. We do not live in a democracy but an elected dictatorship that lurches from one political direction to another with each generation. The majority of poiticians these days have no strong political convictions and will say whatever needs to be said in order to further their careers and climb the greasy pole. That is why they are all now clamouring for the safe middle ground that the Lib Dems used to call their own and we are now basically voting on personalities. I have always been a supporter of Proportional Representation which would give us government based on what ALL the people want.

I have NEVER not voted in a general election as I beleive it to be all our moral duty to do so. A lot of people gave their lives so that I could do so.

So for the first time I am looking very closely at the BNP and UKIP as I am dismayed at where successive governments have led this country both socially,economically and morally. I am not a racist or 'homophobic', far from it so I am looking very closely at what these parties are saying and most of what they say I agree with. At the moment It looks like my next vote will be with one of these parties so I guess that puts me on the Right.

Havn't looked at SWP so I will check 'em out. BTW Hemel I think your poll is too simplistic. New Labour are more right wing than the libdems in a lot of their thinking now. There is no moderate left wing party anymore.

hemelhammer · Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:12 pm

Yeah your probably right about where labour stand. Not being THAT into politcs it was hard for me to get it all right.

The thing is with me and parties such as the BNP and NF is they see to prey on issues such as terrorism and our failing NHS and blame a whole race of people for it. Making our country one colour would screw up our NHS system even more as they would export highly skilled doctors (think of every doctors surgery, theres always one dr.patel) just for there colour. Of corse your intitaled to your opinion and I'm not in any way trying to slate it, I'm just saying why I decided not to read that much more into the BNP.

I also dislike the way the NF try to make facts up when there blatently wrong. NF says that New Labour is New communism when it could not be further from the truth. Labour is more to the right than it has been ever so to call it communism is ridiculous. Of corse, this is true to every politcal party who use scremongering to try and get in office, even Labour and Conservitives can be guilty of that.

SWP are a political activist party, there a socialist wing and part of the RESPECT coalition. The reason I swing that way is exactly what Peter said, "For me at the moment, voting is like asking you which arm you want amputated", capitalist governements who take advantage of the working class man and will continue to not listen to what we have to say untill something is done.

People get the wrong ideas of modern day socialism when it is for me the only answer to the countries problems and is the most democratic.

*Waits to get shot down*

oldhammer1966 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:40 pm

I agree with you entirely on the race thing Hemel.

That is my problem -BNP and NF are in favour of voluntary repatronisation of legal immigrants. I do not agree with this at all, many immigrants in this country are more nationalistic and proud to be British than the majority of native brits. Immigration has always happened in this country for thousands of years and the native population has embraced it. We are known for being a tolerant country but this is now being abused and it is plain for everyone to see.

If you take the repatronisation policy out of their manifesto's everything else they stand for is pretty sound in my opinion.

hemelhammer · Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:54 pm

oldhammer1966 wrote: I agree with you entirely on the race thing Hemel.

That is my problem -BNP and NF are in favour of voluntary repatronisation of legal immigrants. I do not agree with this at all, many immigrants in this country are more nationalistic and proud to be British than the majority of native brits. Immigration has always happened in this country for thousands of years and the native population has embraced it. We are known for being a tolerant country but this is now being abused and it is plain for everyone to see.

If you take the repatronisation policy out of their manifesto's everything else they stand for is pretty sound in my opinion. Yeah I tend to agree with what they say aswell. As I said to begin with I'm a Nationalist at heart but extremist views of that of the BNP and NF have put me to the other end of the spectrum for socialism. I dont agree with all of what they say but they seem radical enough to produce change that would be good for society and not 'racist' like the BNP have accused of being.

If I could start my own party I would, but as I dont have enough money or people that follow what I believe I have to settle with socialism.

Born In The USA · Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:38 pm

Over here we have two main parties Republican or Democrat

both aint worth shit!

joell_mayoh · Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:33 pm

I really think the country is going to the dogs at the minute, and although i try my upmost to be level headed and not blame it on the influx of immigrants, i can't help but think that our slack immigration laws will be the undoing of the country. We're losing our national identity because we're trying too hard to incorporate that of others. I'm not gonna go all Daily Mail n say that immigrants are the Devil! But i do think we need a party that will take a stand and give the country back to the English people. But then again every party you vote in goes in with the best intentions and never delivers, or so my Grandad says anyway! I voted labour last time because i support the war in Iraq, purely coz my brother is over there and i couldn't sleep at night if i thought he could die there for nothing.

hemelhammer · Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:51 pm

oldhammer1966 wrote: I agree with you entirely on the race thing Hemel.

That is my problem -BNP and NF are in favour of voluntary repatronisation of legal immigrants. I do not agree with this at all, many immigrants in this country are more nationalistic and proud to be British than the majority of native brits. Immigration has always happened in this country for thousands of years and the native population has embraced it. We are known for being a tolerant country but this is now being abused and it is plain for everyone to see.

If you take the repatronisation policy out of their manifesto's everything else they stand for is pretty sound in my opinion. After our lovely conversation I looked more into the BNP and NF and I have to say some of the stuff I said was wrong. I got confused between teh NF and the BNP's.

I do believe that the BNP to be a more moderate right-wing party and am definatly looking more into what they have to say (although I am getting a lof stick just for looking at there website :? ).

I believe the NF would kick out all legal immigrants that are not white whereas the BNP would offer them incentives to go back to there countries of origin. Although this to me sill seems harsh, if it's applied properly it could free up housing and jobs to British people. My only concern would be that non-white British people (by that I mean where born in this country) would be encouraged to leave to a country they have never been to before.

I looked more into the SWP policies aswell as other socialist parties, and ive completely changed my mind. There is no way, unless the whole world was run by a number proper socailist states that it would work, and we would lose out national identity.

burythecat · Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:48 pm

i support socialism as the way it should be, but when i do vote over here i vote for who i like, neither democrat or republican.

oldhammer1966 · Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:23 pm

Well I have now read the BNP 2005 Manifesto from start to finish and although I am still uneasy about their voluntary repatronisation schemes, given the whole context of what they are trying to acheive socially,economically and morally I feel they are more closely aligned to my own views than any other party.

Does that make me right wing or far right???

hemelhammer · Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am

oldhammer1966 wrote: Well I have now read the BNP 2005 Manifesto from start to finish and although I am still uneasy about their voluntary repatronisation schemes, given the whole context of what they are trying to acheive socially,economically and morally I feel they are more closely aligned to my own views than any other party.

Does that make me right wing or far right??? fuck knows.... lol

Peter Parka · Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:10 pm

Well after reading this thread I read the BNPs manifesto too and I've got to say I'm as opposed as ever to them. A lot of it was blatantly racist and is about judging people first on their ethnetisity rather than starting everyone off with a clean sheet. Seeing my missus is Australian they would be putting pressure on us to persuade us both to go and live in Australia. Fuck that, this is my home country and I don't see why anyone should put pressure on me to emigrate! They are also in favour of bringing back the death penalty in certain cases but the cases they highlight are impossible to judge. I'm opposed to the death penalty full stop. The immigration problem they are turning into a much bigger problem than it actually is. Many people have been fooled by the media as to the extend of the problem by the use of buzz words like "flooding in" and "living in luxory penthouses". Some of their policies do seem very good but are economically impossible. There is no way given their economic policies that they would be able to fund what they are suggesting. So there you go, thats my opinion of them anyway!

hemelhammer · Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:04 pm

I do agree with leaving the EU amongst many of there other policies. I know in yorkshire where many of my family live, lots of them have lost jobs to Polish migrants who are willing to work for next to nothing. This is not on. How many people have lost there jobs to call centers in india because they'll work under the minimum wage? There should be laws against these things, and if there is they should be better enforced. :evil:

I'm looking into UKIP at the moment to see what they have to say.

oldhammer1966 · Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:05 pm

Peter Parka wrote: Well after reading this thread I read the BNPs manifesto too and I've got to say I'm as opposed as ever to them. A lot of it was blatantly racist and is about judging people first on their ethnetisity rather than starting everyone off with a clean sheet. Seeing my missus is Australian they would be putting pressure on us to persuade us both to go and live in Australia. Fuck that, this is my home country and I don't see why anyone should put pressure on me to emigrate! They are also in favour of bringing back the death penalty in certain cases but the cases they highlight are impossible to judge. I'm opposed to the death penalty full stop. The immigration problem they are turning into a much bigger problem than it actually is. Many people have been fooled by the media as to the extend of the problem by the use of buzz words like "flooding in" and "living in luxory penthouses". Some of their policies do seem very good but are economically impossible. There is no way given their economic policies that they would be able to fund what they are suggesting. So there you go, thats my opinion of them anyway!

Peter I would assume that as most Australians are European migrants or descendants thereof that the BNP would not be offering incentives to repatriate such people. As I said I am uneasy about the whole idea, it smacks of ethnic cleansing a la yugoslavia. I would favour an approach of halting immigration and re-evaluating it and expelling ALL illegals. The Aussies seem to have it right on that score with their immigration rules.

I am in favour of the death penalty in certain cases where the evidence is irrefutable. If anyone killed or molested any of my kids they wouldn't last long enough to see a court room!!

You are right about the media - they do dress things up to sell the story. However in my job i do see the whole spectrum of society and despite the press there are very serious social and moral problems in this country. Nothing will improve until a politician with some backbone stands up and is unafraid to say what the vast majority of people think but are afraid to because of all the Political Correctness bullshit that is now imposed on us.

:x